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Biohacking and Performance Optimization with Eduard de Wilde

It is unfortunate that many of us are not prioritizing our health and not investing enough in our own bodies to improve performance or even the quality of life.

We often wait for the doctor to fix us up with pharmaceuticals when we are finally truly ill.

Performance optimization is helpful in many areas, not only for leaders, but everyone can benefit from integrating biohacks and performance routines into their daily schedule.

In this interview, Eduard de Wilde, CEO of Livehelfi and the founder of NoordCode, join us to share his experiences and insights around digital transformation, body awareness, leadership performance, and biohacking ripple effect in the workplace. Are you interested to learn more about these topics?

Watch the video or listen to the podcast here:


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Dr. Reiner Kraft 0:10

Hi, this is Reiner, founder of the Mindful Leader, and host of this podcast mindful leader podcast. And I'm happy here today to have Edward de Wilde here and joining us and talking about some really cool topics on biohacking, but also digital transformation, how to tie all those things together, I think this will be a really interesting discussion. So I'm looking forward to it. And we'll see where it gets us. So I'm always open to see how things are unfolding. But first, a few words about Eduard. So I have known Eduard for quite some time. And basically by accident around when I was researching actually, to be honest, when researching a few years back, how do I get my bulletproof stuff here to Germany. I stumbled upon his company so he's CEO of Livehelfi, a company focusing on a lot of good basically ingredient supplements around nootropics on the biohacking scene that you can that you want to get but otherwise hard to get a handle on here in Europe. So bulletproof is an example. And so this when I first got in touch with the company I learned about Eduard as well. And it seems there is also a lot of common interests around the biohacking in particularly but also around supplements, micronutrients a lot of other cool stuff but also tech around texting but then getting to know each other a little bit better is also is not just live healthy, and he will share a little bit more detail but live healthy is doing. He's also founder of NoordCode basically producing actually high quality food, food items with ingredients that are sourced with highest quality and purity in mind. For instance, coffee is an example of having really good quality coffee. And that was not called to win and I'm a big fan of the brand I'm using as well. But going back there's a lot of other interesting things. He's also one of the first bulletproof coaches and he's also coaching leaders and entrepreneurs and other people who are interested to have more energy, perform better, get healthier, and so on. And last but not least, to mention his background in digital transformation as a digital strategist. So that's why it's a really interesting combination of different areas. But at the end, they all fit together. So welcome, welcome again Eduard and maybe share a little bit about your story and some of the context I was providing.

Eduard de Wilde 3:19

Yeah, thank you for inviting me. And you know, it seems a little bit weird that the combination of selling supplements and being a digital strategist, but maybe that's good to tell a little bit of my background so that it makes sense in the end. So I used to work for a consultancy company in the Netherlands, I started my career there. And from 1994 I focused my expertise on creating ecommerce strategies for companies already in 1994, the moment when the internet started to appear in the world, and in 2000, I was at the, you know, just becoming partner in the company. And at that very moment, I went to come home with friends and that's in the heart of the jungle. There's a high risk of malaria. And so I took the prophylaxis lyrium. And there were many, many side effects appearing in a lot of people but I didn't know that at the time. So I just took the lyrium and, and I had one of the most severe side effects so you have all kinds of most horrible scenarios and people even committed suicide after taking those pills but I got a severe panic disorder. The moment I arrived back in the Netherlands and that made it very hard to perform as a partner in a strategy consultancy company and it took me six years and I tried all medical therapies that you can imagine 40 I counted 40 of those. But that didn't work out so in the end I decided to stop as a partner and because it was not possible anymore to it because it's a fairly demanding job as you can imagine.And then the psychiatrist that was treating me he said okay, Eduard you just get used to it you know, you need to get used to it and there is no way that you will be better again, because your brain is damaged by the by the medicine and you just have to learn to live with it and and that was not the right message for me because I didn't accept it I did you know, I was 35 in that time. And I I couldn't accept that I had to live with that you know that panic disorder because it's, it's spreading so much tension that you only can work for a few hours per day and then you you become very very tired of it so so that was the start of my journey into health and I didn't know anything about health you know, just as a regular person you go to the doctor if you have an issue and then you you expect the doctor to solve that issue and then someone mentioned Marxism and Marxism is one of the you know, the big men in the Paleo scene and he wrote the book the primal blueprint so I started experimenting with the things that he was laying out in his book and especially changing the food intake so I went to local Whole Foods that already changed my life immensely and so I thought okay, if this is what lifestyle can do with you, then maybe I should start exploring more of it. And so I started to listen to all kinds of podcasts, especially the American thought leaders because they were ahead of the European four leaders . If you look at the health, you know, the old the old the things of good influential health, just by your lifestyle. So I listened to Bob Wolf and to Timothy Ferriss should and Ben Greenfield and then I also listened to the podcast of Dave Asprey and then I learned about biohacking as well okay, that's cool biohacking school experimenting, you're doing experiments on yourself, measuring things. Also the technology part of it, I found it fascinating. And then I discovered that I could improve you know, with each hack, I could create, you know, just a small improvement and, and another improvement and, and at a certain moment, I thought, okay, when I look back, so it took me you know, 15 years to to come to that conclusion.

If I look back, I'm in a better shape now than I was before I went to come home and before I get the panic disorder, and I was so excited about it enough of Okay, then if that's the situation I want to do more in it and and maybe I should switch careers and and then, you know, I was I was using the bulletproof products, I was importing them from the United States and all the kinds of Bullock's fault okay? It doesn't make sense that all Europeans import those products by themselves, you know, this waste of money and effort. And because I was into ecommerce strategies and digital transformation, I thought okay, maybe I can combine my two interest because I you know, as a consultant, you're always dependent on the company what they will implement or not and and this way you I thought okay now I can do it myself and I can show how how it should be done and if I make a mistake then it's you know it's my the consequences for me so I decided to import the bulk of products to set up my own ecommerce company and that took off by the way so in the in the first year I combined it with my job as a digital strategy consultant and then after a certain moment I you know, I had to work seven days a week because you know you have to earn a living and to build the company so that was quite a tough time and after a few years I was able to say okay, now I can switch careers and focus fully on building live healthy and after that building new workout so that's that's my background.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 11:05

Very very cool and so there was at that point there was a necessity right when you when this when this happened and so this was probably the turning point and gave you this focus and ability and yeah, I've heard that a lot and it's similar in my in my case as well that usually it has to be something that gets you out of the rat racing right out of the comfort zone there is always some pain suffering whatever it is that triggers attention and then all of a sudden once you get them whatever it is then you get into in this case it was figuring out how do I feel better how do I get better. That's a cool starting point right and then yeah, the journey is usually tough to get but it's like it's it seems like now with living healthy. It's been around for quite a long time. How many years is it's there when did you find it?

Eduard de Wilde 12:09

Yeah, it's six years now.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 12:13

Maybe share about what you offer now and just to get a sense of the press I mean it's like when you go to the side for my own experiences so many good things there is this candy shop basically for but healthy healthy stuff right on where it is now.

Eduard de Wilde 12:34

Yeah so so we we added quite a few brands so after bulletproof we added natural stacks and eventually also neuro hacker collective is also one of our main brains you know it's it's I consider it the world's voice amongst the nootropics they are fairly expensive but also of very high quality and well research products but also you know the regular things like MCT oils and and you know the collagen powders and it's so we focus on innovative brands with proven high quality and most of them are not you know, not available in Europe so so one of our biggest promises is that we search especially the American market for innovative brands does the know that there are more possibilities in the United States to implement to market new products than in Europe because Europe is quite conservative. And that makes it hard for European startups because you have all those health regulations and that's, you know, it's good to have those health regulations but also it one way or the other. It puts a brake on innovation. And that's a bit of shame.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 14:15

Yeah. So So to summarize, basically, for those for those listeners, who may have heard the term nootropics or some of the things for supplements The first time I think the good, simple simplified summary would be if you start getting into biohacking to optimize your health, your body, energy levels, resilience, whatever it is, for whatever motivation. There are certain micronutrients products that can help and I think living healthy at the end of the day is a very convenient way. I mean, it's convenient, right so that you can go there. You don't have to worry about importing something from outside of Europe which can be a hassle I've been through it myself right but makes it really easy and get it delivered and then you can use those products so so I think this is so this is a pretty good solution but you actually went a step further right because now with NoordCode you decided well there seems to be some products here that is just missing from the from the portfolio. What was the motivation?

Eduard de Wilde 15:32

yeah there you know there's there are a few reasons one is of course the optimistic reason because if you see that there's an opportunity to market your own products and not being dependent on suppliers you know, especially you know, the American supply chain you never know what they are up to and so as a reseller you are dependent on their actions endorsements and their strategies and and if you have your own brand then you know you're in full control so that's one reason and another one that's more no from a sustainable perspective I thought okay they have some good products in the United States but but many products we still can produce also in Europe and and why should we fly products from the United States to Europe while we can create them here ourselves and for example MCT oil we have the highest quality MCT oil in Europe and and the ghee in the collagen and enter coffee so I decided to source them in Europe to offer you know a sustainable alternative you know, at at least the same quality as the American supplies but even more you know, it can be even more high quality so that's, you know, your Europe is a very good place to source products for us. Absolutely. And yeah, many different products we have developed by now. Yeah, we have. So we have the MCT oils, we have chocolate, collagen, ghee, we have a very nice keto bar. That's a vegan keto bar. I'm very happy with that one as well. And we are now in the phase of finishing the development of educational topics and we will mark that I think the end of the year, I hope and then and I'm very excited about that one as well.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 17:54

We could and I think some listeners may think about who haven't heard about biohacking yet or are not very deep yet in just getting started. Why the heck should I get coffee there? I could just go to my local coffee shop. Maybe maybe share just an example. I think coffee is a good example why it is a good choice or a smart choice actually to get not cold coffee or whatever other plant that you can get there.

Eduard de Wilde 18:23

Yeah, I must admit you know, there are some very good quality high quality brands also available in Europe of course, but what I want you know that the it was based on the on the bulletproof, you know, the the marketing of David Asprey of his office bulletproof coffee was because there were many many coffees that are toxic, causing all kinds of issues with people you know, you you can feel it if you drink the wrong the wrong coffee then you can become jittery you know and you have the urge to drink more and more and more you know, that's for me the sign of coffee with a low quality and, and the biohackers are very keen on getting the best products to put in the body because you know that that's that's what they aim for. So what I wanted to do is to give them an alternative for the bulletproof coffee, because that is tested on mold and toxins. Okay. There are some high quality coffees available, but you don't know if they are tested on mold and toxins, and I made sure that I found a supplier with clean coffee, you know that I could test and I did test it so that I'm at least sure that this coffee is clean and that you don't have to jittery feelings and that you don't need to drink more and more of it. And that You know that's and also I'm very happy that the taste is also very very good.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 20:05

Yeah, absolutely. Now I enjoy it as well and so you can see with small small choices like what coffee you drink, what you put in your body, right? Yeah, big outcome because I think that's really the one of the principles behind biohacking is awareness, food awareness to really think about become aware what is it that you actually put in your body and it could be things you think you eat very can be other things and smell like shampoo, parfume, or even washing detergent that you use for laundry right there's all those things around you in the environment that potentially somehow make it into your body right through the skin through the mouth through wherever they can enter right in some of those things are unfortunately toxic and toxicity there's so much science out there when you start looking into this has dramatically increased in the past 20 to 30 years right and so this is an example of coffee having clean coffee no toxins in it no mold this little basically this would be considered a bio hack and that's in that sense right this would be considered a bio hack to just get good coffee and instead of other one and this can already as you mentioned can have a big impact

Eduard de Wilde 21:39

yeah yeah it's it's it's really funny it's it sounds so simple that you know that you have to be aware of what you put in your body but that effect when I talk to other people I see that there is a disconnect between how they feel and how they perform and and how aware they are what they put in the body so what food choices they make so that they don't make that connection and if you talk about them about it with them it's okay it's a biochemical factory your body and and you know you are putting fuel in it and all kinds of other building blocks in it so if you if you don't put in the building blocks you can't expect that you know the factory will perform at its best you know and and and then certainly the moment that that people realize that yes indeed you know everything that is in my body everything how it operates is affected by what I do with it and how I treat it and what I put in it then they will become more careful about what choices to make and and already you know that that simple way of thinking makes a huge difference for many many people.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 23:16

Yeah, and that is and that is really awareness goes back to this awareness and and I've seen that in also my own experience when working with tech leaders, business leaders, many of them they're so focused on these business objectives, KPIs key performance indicators, delivery whatever needs to get delivered so and they're so focused they have so much when it comes to awareness what's happening to make sure this gets delivered whatever product it is digital product something else right but there is an effort isn't focused there but they completely neglect also in awareness their own body right so that they're not aware of what's going on inside their body they feel this is the symptoms but since the awareness is so limited, the symptoms have to become really strong right so otherwise they don't even pay attention. Yeah, the body usually sends the symptoms right it sends little triggers and maybe there could be some tension it starts with these little seeing a few aches right but as you said earlier with the coffee a little jittery right so there is the body sends the signals but you have to become aware to actually notice them. They are actually I realize I think what you said is a is a good analogy this body is basically this fabric right and the ingredients what you put in there the body will figure out what to do with it right but if you put bad stuff in it's a very slim chance you get good stuff out usually you get bad in bed out, right

Eduard de Wilde 25:00

And you know it's all also about energy and so your your your body puts the energy first in the systems that it needs to survive you know you have to have the lymphatic system you know and the human system and the human system is the last system that the body will give the energy to because it first needs to take care you know to make sure that you stay alive the joy your body functions and then you want to focus on be able to fight and flight, and to have sex and and to look for food but but the leaders of companies you know they are in the mental game and and if you don't care for your body then you don't have enough energy to make sure that your mental processes are are in place so you first have to take care for yourself in order to be able to perform on a mentally you know top level and and that's what most business leaders that I know not aware of and the moment that they start to change their lifestyle then they see that they can perform better you know in their work environment.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 26:19

Good point, it means leadership performance. At the end of the day when you look at it there's two components one side is what you just said as the body right? Yeah, it's to be able in particular as leaders that there isn't a high demand for energy, cognitive energy, mental energy because you're working not just maybe regular hours you may work around pretty much around the clock every day, maybe even weekends, right? Yeah, the body needs to train, the brain is using 20% of your energy and it needs it constantly 24 seven and so if there's not enough energy there it then leads to all kinds of problems and that impacts quality at the end of the day the quality of decisions we make is poor right? You get tired because fatigue is one of the symptoms that usually happens later in the day. Basically there's no energy at any point; there are not enough electrons to move around in the body. But yeah, I mean this is a paradox right and leaders particularly when in general not just leaders right i mean my my background I am a trained engineer and if you do programming right and it requires a lot of mental mental power and then just putting in some sugary drinks or coffee is not is not going to do the trick right you have to be smart in terms of what it is that the body needs and to to actually help the body as good as possible I think maybe that's that's maybe our drop is a right is maybe just to make sure that we feed the right stuff in there and let the body figure out the rest

Eduard de Wilde 28:08

Yeah, yeah and it's amazing the effect it can have on your energy levels because you know if you are in a demanding job then you want to have that energy all day long. You know and for example, you mentioned this sugary drinks you know if you drink and snack all the time with high sugar food you know then you have all those sugar peaks and lows and that will make you lethargic you know the you become tired at the lows so then you make bad decisions, you feel tired after lunch at 5pm you need a snack in order to be able to perform till six, 7pm and and if you make simple changes in your in your food intake and make sure that you have a constant sugar level in your blood and you can see what what tremendous effect it has on on the way how you can perform how you've been Can you know stay present during the day and i also if you are a leader in a company I think that most leaders are not aware of the role they have in the company or people are looking up to them and copying their behavior and so if you if you want not only to perform yourself the best way possible, but also to make sure that your company is performing well. If you lead by example, you know, then your employees will not by definition, but they are more inclined to follow you, and you will benefit from it as well. Because you know, the people in your company, they, they do all the work and then and there are so many hidden costs of people, you know that are not burned out. But, you know, at the point of becoming burned out, you know that the cost of those of those employees, that is tremendous and and if you just can improve their behavior by showing how it is possible to, to change just by improving your lifestyle, then I think everybody will benefit also, you're also the company that you are leading.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 30:55

So, absolutely, and I think this is something we can maybe now go also a little bit deeper in, I think, leading by example, it's a good thing. So if a leader actually demonstrates this capability and quality, to probably take care of his or her mind and body, right, and this will have significant impact on performance and quality of decisions, all the stuff we talked about earlier, it's clear that there's a huge improvement that can be done, someone who's not doing it is stressed out low energy levels, and all of the sudden, converting a person like this into a leader with mental clarity, full power full, right, they have the just think about the productive outcome. It's more than doubling what I don't have. I mean, these would be interesting studies to look at how much we can double just performance by having someone take proper care of him or herself. But now the interesting part is now if there's now this ripple effect in the workspace, and they're the thing that in the past years, right? When I was digging more into mindfulness and its impact on the workplace, they just actually did a podcast about a few a few weeks with Daniel Lieber, who is the leading founder of wevolve, the company that launched mindfulness coaching for the workplace. And they did some study with a large ecommerce company in Berlin. And they were showing the impact on just mindfulness training. That means when you take proper care of your mind for employees, and the it's also a sustainable impact that you were showing in different dimensions, likely, let's say focus is one, right? I mean, you can imagine, what focus can have on the outcome on the bottom line, if there is more focus, right? The negative thoughts negativity points down also to toxic work environments reduced significantly. So they were showing these results. But this just the mind part, interestingly, would be now maybe this could be the topic, we'll go in a little bit more now around digital transformation. But now look at it in terms of health transformation at the workplace, right? People, I mean, that is a high rate usually. I know that big companies like SAP, they have something like an in house index, but it's at the end relatively simple, where they look how often people get sick, right? Every time someone gets sick, there's a loop, there's a huge loss in productivity. And so the question would be then I think nobody really has looked into this at this point, at least I'm not that aware of what can be done to really encourage this combination of healthy body, healthy mind and healthy body. There's a lot of work that can be leveraged in the sphere of biohacking, right? And then see what actually happens to the bottom line, especially in large companies. I mean, this could be, I mean, this could be huge, right? I mean, if mindfulness alone, mind training mind basically training the mind has these huge increases validated from also different companies to experiment with this. So it's huge, huge. Huge improvement from there, I would sink on the health side and should be even more right and then think about combining them.

Eduard de Wilde 34:36

Yeah, there are studies that calculate the hidden costs of people who do not perform well because they are too tired and almost burnt out. And so the business case is immense. If you can lower your It's, I think it's almost 40% of, of the missing potential of your labor force, it's almost 40%. So if you can, if you can lower that, you know, and, and program a program to, to help your your people to improve their lifestyle, you know, it's, it's nothing compared to the impact it has on the bottom line, and just by lowering the numbers and, and, you know, when I talked to companies, and I asked them how much they spent on on health, you know, it's most of most of the time, it's, it's the human resource department, it has a very small budget, and then they stimulate people to take a yoga class or, you know, different courses, and it's, you know, it's, it's so minimal, and, and then I think, okay, if you if you consider the business decision, and it's not only the responsibility of the HR department, but also, you know, from a business perspective, and then you calculate the profit that you can gain just by making your, your people more healthy and, and more productive, then, you know, the potential budget to invest in those programs, you know, it can be 100,000 folds. And, and so it's a more strategic decision, in my opinion, to invest in those programs than a human resource, you know, kind of be nice for your people kind of decision.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 36:46

Yeah, and I mean, companies invest in all kinds of stuff. I mean, in all kinds of, for instance, research is an example, right? Large companies would like to invest in research, innovation. But usually those budgets are all also relatively small, right? Yeah, you just set for health. I mean, I would say like if they would offer that something like a yoga class, or some meditation, meditation class, or things like there's, of course, some some of the more modern companies that I've seen that when I saw when I moved here to Berlin five years ago, I've seen there was not much going on in these areas at all a little bit, right? And then I've seen some increase in the past years for sure, but these are all little miniscule steps. And when I compare this with Silicon Valley, most of my times, they're way more advanced when it comes to this, right. So they I mean, I give you an example, at Yahoo, for instance, we had our own gym, right? Yep, it was. And there were lots of programs there . It's a typical drill with all those exercise programs and things you can think about from starting with yoga, but with all kinds of other fitness challenges, boot camp, whatever you name it, that was available to all employees. And of course, there's a cost that not every company can do it like this, right? But the end of return is immense. Right? At the end, what happened was, and then of course, later on, they introduced healthy food and free lunch even right, when Marissa Meyer came. This was one of the first things as an example in the food quality was definitely decent, right? So it's, I would say, better than what you would get otherwise if you were to dine, or give lunch outside. So it was good, good quality and so people wouldn't actually want to leave the campus. But they would stay there long and because they had everything they needed around keeping them giving energy, having a pleasant environment and all those kinds of things. Yeah. And he is in Germany, I don't think it's yet that advanced, it's moving up for sure. Yeah. But the cost for this right? I think similar to you, it's small, it's miniscule, but you have to think now the problem is, how would they go? I mean, what's your take on this? Because let's say, let's say we have here a few bigger companies in Berlin. And then let's say one of them says, Oh, yeah, they watch our video here, podcasts and they get inspired and say, This is cool, we need to do it, but how would they actually do what you think? How could they approach it because it's not straightforward.

Eduard de Wilde 39:42

I would suggest that, you know, the leaders, the Board of Directors, that they first start by themselves, you know, for themselves and when they see it They will believe it. And when they will believe it, they, you know, then it's a fairly simple calculation that, okay, if, if I feel the difference, what difference does it make, if I can convince 1000 people to do the same. And that, you know, that's, that's, that's, I think the main issue that if you are the leader of a company, and you have that disconnect between what you do with your body and your performance, then you think, okay, it's just a hobby of the HR department, because you don't believe in it. So you first have to start to believe in yourself too, to become aware of it, you do it yourself, no, and then the rest will follow. quite easily. And otherwise, it's it's, you know, then you have to make all kinds of study documents to convince people with numbers and and, and, and if you, if you're, if you're not a believer, then it doesn't make sense, it's a waste of effort. So first, start with yourself, that would be my suggestion.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 41:11

Yeah and that and that makes also that makes me that makes a lot of sense and but that is unfortunately one of the problems that this awareness investing in your own body to improve performance improve quality of life right and become more healthier and then you could do a lot of more stuff it's the potential is huge but my opinion it's usually it's it's not a priority right so it's it's something that is so low and priority right? And that obviously if it's that low a priority for a leader but then the problem is obviously it will not be a priority for the employees right so basically they will not get this message is important and then nothing is going to happen right? And yeah, I think from from our perspective, raising awareness is one of the things we can do and in short what's possible but I think the this getting a more proactive mindset is is the foundation right to think as a leader think more proactively when it comes to your own mental and also your body basic body health right now to any thoughts on how to increase productivity in leaders? I don't know I mean, that's, that's

Eduard de Wilde 42:40

I if you are a good leader than then boy activities is one of your core competencies

Dr. Reiner Kraft 42:42

Yes, yes. And for achieving the numbers right for looking at what the roadmap the OPR is and all that stuff then you will be proactive for sure but this adds for you right for your heart,

Eduard de Wilde 43:06

Yeah, it’s hard because you know, those those leaders are also all of our people you know, on the highest level of the the monkey you know walk and they many of them are not very open for changing their behavior because I think that their behavior makes them possible to reach the level where they are acting and if you talk about lifestyle many many people become very defensive if you if you talk about changing their habits because they it's also it gives them comfort you know it's it's it's it's part of their life and it gives them you know, most unhealthy foods give a lot of satisfaction because that's why they are created because people like them like to eat them and and demand that they have to give up that they they become defensive so they want they want to improve their lifestyle but it should be very very easy and but that's that's the biggest problem because changing your lifestyle is not easy.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 44:34

It could be simple. Like what you mentioned at the beginning, just changing the coffee, right? I mean, this little example. Yeah, that quick, already such a big impact. And it's not just one thing, but if you do 10 of those things, yeah. in a systematic way there is over time and you learn you get better. So getting started is a key challenge and then maybe then let's say someone actually got started and is doing this for a few months sees these tremendous improvements basically doubled energy level. Stress is down as well because of this neurotransmitters there's more neurotransmitters that work effectively. Maybe that person started in parallel on some mind management practices around mindfulness meditation and so on so you see all these huge improvements but now that person says okay great I'm convinced let's do it right but how would they then just as a final thought on this How could they then actually getting started to apply these things to the workplace I mean this there's still like creativity required and there is no real providers at this point specializing in this as far as I know of what would be your take one.

Eduard de Wilde 45:55

Yeah, I don't know if there are no no providers are you know at least in the Netherlands there are many many many companies that provide those services and and maybe they are not as sophisticated you can't you can't consider them biohackers most programs are superficial they are. So I I can think about designing you know a program where you do a pilot with you know, with a group of people and and and let them be the example of how you how you can change things and and also make it very quantified, quantified because now that that's in most of the programs that I that I observe is that the quantification of things is lacking and and if you you know if for example if you give 20 people an ordering, and you educate them, how to interpret the visuals and how to improve the underlying KPIs that are showing in the overall dashboard then you mentioned things about sleep how to optimize your sleep meal timing how to exercise you know, because that all is reflected in the numbers that you see on the dashboard you know, and then you know it will become a kind of a game and and that's that's that's why I'm very excited to you know to use this kind of tools because it's it's a kind of a game to improve the numbers and to to investigate what is causing you know, this kind of, of of output and then it's not you don't have to convince people anymore because they can see in the data how their decisions in life will affect the numbers and and you know, and they're the way they show up in life and and at work and that would be my approach if I would start a program in the company just to to start with a small group of people and quantify the results so that they become the ambassador of your program for the for the next group of people

Dr. Reiner Kraft 48:36

I get that. It sounds really cool. I mean, the the idea of a pilot is always good so you have small small number of people who can experiment with this I like the idea of obviously the measurement that's always data driven approach which I favor for all the things I'm doing measure measure and then yeah give them some tech right given what is probably the most affordable is but highest quality in terms of when it comes to result currently on the market I that's my opinion, but there will be always better devices coming out but it's for getting for practical purposes given all right like it and then and then some some guidance on how to move there is for each of these dimensions like sleep, exercise nutrition, there is so much knowledge out there and if you haven't, if you can share a few tips at the end as a leader with the with the team they can start digging into it and after a few months, maybe two three months you could validate these results right and then if it works out, which I would expect it what the question is how can it scale that would be another another discussion. But wrapping up since we're getting towards the end of this episode, maybe share one A biohack for leaders, where you said, Well, if I'm a leader, I'm listening to this. And maybe it is a tiny bit of interest to maybe improve my performance. Not sure if these guys what they're talking about if this all makes sense, but if there's one simple thing that they could try out for a few days, maybe for one or two weeks, that could make a big difference. What would it be? What would you

Eduard de Wilde 50:35

Yeah, there are of course, many, many hacks that I could advise one, one of the most important ones is the breathing. And so there are two dimensions. One is the HRV. You also talk a lot about HRV yourself, the heart rate variability training. That's you, by breathing through your heart, you can influence your heart rate variability and by improving your heart rate variability, you improve your stress, your capability to manage stress. So especially when you are a very busy professional, a leader and under a lot of pressure then managing your hardware abilities is very profound, profound, too. And and the other one is just the briefing on its own I I practice each morning, the Wim Hof breathing and I have my own ice bath and I want to recommend that everybody should buy an ice bath or build their own ice bath but you know the cold showers in the morning and then the briefing or first briefing identical shower you know, it makes such a difference when when you wake up and you're you know it's a little bit foggy in your head or whatever. You do the briefing and it's the Wim Hof Method is 30 seconds breathing and then retention and then we think again and retention again I want to explain the method itself but you know the it clear up your head it gives you energy it resets your your system and and that's fairly simple it's it's cheap, you know, you don't have to pay for anything and and doesn't cost a lot of time it's it's the rim of method you know, it's 20 minutes in the morning so it's worth the effort to wake up earlier and to make it part of your morning ritual. And so I record one hour earlier than I used to just to be able to make sure that I can do my ice bath and breathing and that's what makes my day.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 53:05

Absolutely. I mean, I have a similar routine. I think the Wim Hof breathing for those listening here. If you go on YouTube, Google Wim Hof breathing, there is a video which is 11 or 12 minutes and it walks you through three rounds of breathing. It's very simple, you just look at it follow the instructions to get started. Of course there's more things you can do once you get used to it. But it's like a reset, right? It's like in the morning it's this reset. Yep. And the other one the cold exposure to cold I mean the shower is a simple way to get started. And you're nice to combine those things as well. And then as you said, yeah get up earlier right because most leaders are busy there's a packed schedule and then we're talking about these things. The reality is actually not more time if you have to be smart about the time right if you use the morning before your regular stuff starts. This is investing in yourself, right? That investment in yourself and the quality of life in your performance. And then there's more things you can do again that don't take our time over the course of today which I usually talk about as well as pleasing some mindfulness exercise and so on. So then I would say that biohacking is not really a time sink or anything either it's more you have to become educated smart and you have to figure out how to in your personal case squeeze it in

Eduard de Wilde 54:38

right and yeah, that's the art of biohacking to make it as efficient as possible if you know to stack by your ex as well. So some people they ask me, okay, you are lucky because you are biohacking is your business so you can spend so many time on biking but then I said no, I have to run a business so that I don't have that much time and I you know, that's I'm focused a lot on Being as efficient as possible in implementing all the stuff, you know, to do it in between my activities. And as you mentioned, you know, in the morning, before everybody wakes up, it's the most valuable time to spend on your own health.

Dr. Reiner Kraft 55:30

Absolutely. And so thanks a lot for all the good insights and the discussion. I think there was a lot of cool information in here that can be quite helpful for leaders. And my hope is, yeah, that few leaders basically get going and think about digital transformation, but in the context of Mind Body, how this could actually impact their business. We'll put links in the show notes for all the stuff we talked about videos, of course, your site's not code. Some of the products are created nicely. So you see all those different things that can be helpful in regards to what you just listen to. And then yeah, again, thanks for being here. spending the time and sharing some of your experiences.

Eduard de Wilde 56:26

Thank you. It was my pleasure.


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